Friday, June 12, 2009

Patient Dumping And Hospitalist Co-Management.

A reader asks the question:
Has hospitalist co-management simply turned into outright, legitimized patient dumping?

I get called from the ER to admit a perforated viscous in a 80 year old woman with abdominal pain, and copious free air on CT.  General surgery was called, told the ER "admit to the hospitalist" and refused to even call our service to discuss it as he/she "not seen the patient yet" and told the ER when pressed when he/she would be in, it would be "some time tonight" rather than the 1 hour required by our medical staff bylaws.
This is how not to form good working relationships.  I swear, sometimes it seems like subspecialty groups consider hospitalists the enemy.  You try and do the right thing by having physician to physician communication and some doctors find themselves above the process.  Almost as if they are too good to be bothered with such annoyances as patient consults.  I have stopped counting how many times I have had a doctors yell at me for "only consulting me (CPT 99253, 99254, 99255) on the uninsured patients" or "only consulting me on the complicated patients".  I have stopped counting how many times certain doctors yell at me for asking for their help in evaluating patients that I have no formal training.
   
I even cared once for a patient with a surgical problem where in I was forced to go through  four surgeons of varying subspecialties whom were all qualified to evaluate the surgical condition for which I was requesting assistance.  It took me 45 minutes to hunt down a doctor, who finally agreed to see the patient after their surgical and clinical rounds, the following day.  

When you don't have back up to evaluate and manage conditions for which you are not trained to handle, you simply stop accepting them to your primary service until that changes.   I would not put myself into a position as an attending where I would accept a dying patient and no subspecialist to help evaluate conditions for which I am not trained to manage.  It would be like me transferring the patient from Happy's regional referral center to a small town community hospital.   I do not  agree to admit a patient with a primary condition for which I am not able to manage unless I am guaranteed  immediate access to a subspecialist who can help me in co-management. 

I have no problem admitting surgical patients when I know the surgeon is available immediately. When I see the  patient as a consultant or a primary, nothing is different for me.  But making sure the doctors are available without jumping through hoops is key.
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9 Outbursts:

  1. Lordy, Lordy, a Surgeon won't work for free...actually it's costin him money when you factor in the lost sleep, pushed back/canceled cases, general pain-in-the-ass-ism...Whens the last time YOU saw a patient for nuthin?? We fought a Civil War to do away with indentured servitude, check the Constitution sometime...or as my favorite character in "Caddyshack" said,

    "This isn't Russia"

    Not yet, anyway....

    Frank, "I don't work for Free" Drackman

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  2. Happy, Do agree on this, as it has complicated two of my patients in clinical. One ended up emergent as I knew he would. Me wringing my hands (I've got real, real good intuition). My hospitalist was so pissed at the situation he almost didn't care anymore. The other, I intervened not wanting a situation similar to the first, and dug up the needed surgeon myself, as I knew where he might be, having observed a case or two of his the week prior. Mr. Superstar General Surgeon. I found him right away with car keys in hand. Got him to come back upstairs, my hospitalist actually choked on his coffee when he saw us. Patient went to surgery, a perforation. Surgeon said(get this) "good call" to me, right in front of my hospitalist. What a prick. I knew that I got said surgeon to follow me because he was a huge flirt. Easy enough. But, I don't want to keep having to watch my patients go bad because of this shit. I've thought of using shock collars or something... I'll figure it out...
    -SCNS

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  3. We see patients for free nearly every single day. They're the uninsured that come through the ER, and there are a lot of them.

    When is the last time we got paid a large sum to do a single procedure and then left the patient's care to somebody else? That would be never, but surgeons do it routinely.

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  4. Lordy, Lordy, a Surgeon won't work for free... ¿lord god surgeon aren't rich enough on the states? maybe im TOO IGNORANT but as far as I know, US Surgeons are one the best payed on the world along with UK?, if not at least you are paid most than ER docs and hospitalists. why dont you stuck with your patient?, There is so much greed involved...

    aren`t you an anethesiologist?

    US:
    Anesthesiology
    $259,948$ - $321,686$

    Surgery: General
    228,839 - 282,504

    Internal medicine: General
    141,912$ 166,420$

    Spain
    Surgeons 192 000 EU

    Internal Medicine 48000 EU

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  5. "Turf 'em all and let god sort 'em out". Know that well in the Psych end of the game.

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  6. Regardless of insurance, a perforated viscus is a surgical emergency. Dumping it on a hospitalist is simply ridiculous.

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  7. I thought residency was supposed to end after, well, residency ended. But the dumping continues, eh? Just know that we take better care of them before and after the cutting than they could dream.

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  8. Ortho at my hallowed institution has perfected the art of the hospitalist dump..."Because they're old"...

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