I had a really busy hospitalist night shift. 13 admissions, one consult and one central line in a 12 hour shift.
7 : 99223 high level complexity admissions
4 : 99220 high level observation admissions
2 : 99291 critical care admissions
1 : 99233 ortho follow up consult
1 : 36556 central line
with 1/2 hour left to write this post.
If every one of those patients were Medicare, how much did I bill for the night? Let's see
7 (99223) About 5 Total RVUs worth about $170 each for a total of 35 RVUs/$1190
4 (99220) About 4 Total RVUs worth about $140 each for a total of 16 RVUs/$560
2 (99291) About 6 Total RVUs worth about $200 each for a total of 12 RVUs/$400
1 (99233) About 2.5 Total RVUs worth about $90
1 (36556) About 3.5 Total RVUs worth about $110
Remember, it's all relative. Tonight, a record night, I produced a total RVU (work RVU+practice expense+malpractice) of about 69 RVUs. If every one of those encounters was a Medicare patient, I would have collected close to $2,400. What is RVU? You need to understand the process to continue reading.
If you look at just the work RVU's, that RVU amount that is attributed only to physician expertise, education and effort (strip out the practice expense and malpractice expense from the total RVUs) , the workRVUs amounts to about 52 RVUs for 14 complicated admissions/critical care/consults/ and a central line.
Lets compare this to the Medicare payment to the orthopaedic surgeon for doing the total knee arthroplasty (CPT 27447) that I was consulted on. It is worth about 23 work RVUs. Add in the 4 work RVUs for the consult before surgery and you're looking at 27 work RVUs to do a total knee arthroplasty. Now granted, this surgery carries with it a global 90 day period for which the surgeon is required to care for the patient as part of their agreement.
To produce 52 work RVUs an orthopaedic surgeon would have to perform just under two total knee arthroplasties (about 1.9). So lets assume they do that in the 11 hours. Let's say the consult takes 1/2 an hour ( that's pushing it). Two consults would take an hour. That leaves 10 hours of time for 1.9 surgeries and all post operative follow up.
It would take an orthopaedic surgeon a time commitment of 5 hours over a 90 day period for their total knee to produce the volume equivalent to the time and effort put in by a hospitalist on a record busy day. Let's even assume that it takes 5 hours of OR/post OR cares to do a total knee (which is perhaps double or triple the actual time commitment), if you are a medical student would you rather spend 11 hours admitting 14 people or would you rather spend 11 hours doing surgery on two of them.
The answer is simple. And that's why medical students know exactly what they are doing when they shun E/M only medicine in favor of the lucrative procedural/surgical based subspecialties. When you can earn the same amount seeing two patients with a five hour commitment that in actuality may take less than 1/2 that much, deciding what medical career to pursue is not rocket science. And it's all courtesy of the RUC.
Before some subspecialists spam me as saying I knew what I was getting into, let me say I love my job. Hospitalist medicine has left the irrational constraints the RVU pot. This discussion is not personally about me, but rather about the reality of the model for which we choose to pay doctors to perform.
I forgot to add, the central line, from start to finish took me 20 minutes. The observation admissions, which paid slightly more than the central line took at least 45 minutes. It's not effort that is being paid. The central lines are easy compared to admissions. But they pay so much better on a time based axis. And that has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with the RVU as determined by the RUC. It takes far more skill for me to think my way through a differential diagnosis than it does for me to swab some cleanser on the skin and stick a needle in a vein.
Make sure to visit my lectures on coding for hospitalists and my hospitalist resource center for a wealth of practice management information
Make sure to visit my lectures on coding for hospitalists and my hospitalist resource center for a wealth of practice management information
LINK TO E/M POCKET CODING CARD POST
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You've got time to blog for half an hour at work (what's that, 8% of your "work" day?) and still complain about not being paid enough and working too hard?
ReplyDeleteDo you work in health care, anonymous? If not, trust me when I say that these type of breaks are important (but rare). Happy may sound arrogant, but if you really look at the point he's trying to make, I think you'd have to agree that he makes sense.
ReplyDeleteJust curious..are you blogging on your own personal device at work or the company's computer? New to the blogosphere and just wondering about using the company computer to blog..seems there might be an issue there.
ReplyDeleteThats a record night??? Jeez, I spend more money than that on E-bay during one of my shifts... I KNOW, you're savin the Hospital money by your Rainman-like coding efficiency...
ReplyDeleteYou left out one line....
Whining like a little bitch flea....PRICELESS
Frank
WHy so angry? Just one point of view
ReplyDeleteI remember thinking as a med student, "I don't really like orthopaedics, so I don't care how much money I would be paid to do it, I still would not do it". Somehow I think fewer and fewer med students are saying that to themselves.
ReplyDeleteConveniently leave out the knee replacement was on a 350 pound patient who got a wound infection, a DVT,and called "insert name of local one call that's all law firm" for her terrible outcome because her husband's knee came out just fine.
ReplyDeleteYeah... I need a new job. 13 admissions in a 12 hour period is fairly standard for us. And yes... there's only one guy on during that period of time.
ReplyDeleteI love it when you show your warm and fuzzy side, Happy.
ReplyDelete"Refugee. You practice in a program that is not sustainable. It's only a matter of time before burnout sets in. That I am sure of."
ReplyDeleteAye Aye Captain Kirk. The transporter is malfunctioning, I'll get him out of there as soon as I can! --Scotty
... Sorry, *hiccup* had to do it, LOL, I'm a little bit trashed, just finished intersession, still 4.0!
-SCNS
Actually the nonsubsidized hospitalist model is the only one that is viable in the longterm. Feel free to believe otherwise, but when there are hospitalist groups (and there are plenty) who will work without a subsidy, hospitals will eventually move to using them over your type of group.
ReplyDeleteIt's nice to theorize that this will simply lead to burnout. The growing national practices with this type of model speak to a different reality.
- Typical ER Shift 8 vs 12 hrs dependent on the shift.
ReplyDelete- 2.5 - 3.5 Patients seen per hour.
- Number of them that are Medicare 20%
- RVU ? WTF is that, you mean they are supposed to pay me for this ?
- Pay: Nowhere close to $2,400.
- Time spent playing phone tag with bitter hospitalist = 30 minutes per admission.
- Smile on my face every time I get to tell him about the next patient = Priceless.
He billed for $2400. That doesn't mean he collects $2400.
ReplyDeleteThat's a hilarious response coming from an ER doc. You work half the month during a busy month and generally make more money than a hospitalist. Get a grip.
Only $110 for a Central Line??? I tip my yard guy more than that... I remember doin em' during Internship for no-load FPs and Internists who couldn't be bothered to come in to do it themselves... We'd get $50/Line and Dickhead would pocket the rest...and those were 1988 Dollars that would actually last you a while at the Strip Club...
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the $2400 does not include expenses for malpractice, billing, and whatever other overhead a hospitalist practice might have. For an ER practice total overhead can run 20-30% of gross.
ReplyDeleteAlso, depending on payor mix, medicare reimbursement might be an optimistic assumption
It's true that ER docs do much better than the typical hospitalist. However, not bloody many are making $500K. It happens, sure. But it's rare. There's huge regional variation. The median range for ER is about $150-250. Not chump change, but not orthopedist money either.
if we start talking about the magazines again, we are gonna hit 100 post on this one. anyways what you get paid on a 12 hour more than i get one a month im payed 400$ regarless of the amount of people i saw, but i guess that wont make you happy neither do I.
ReplyDeleteActually the ER group I work with regularly makes 350,000-450,000 a year with the ability to get up to 500,000 K with an extra shift or two a month. I don't begrudge them, but to think hospitalists make aboutthesame amount of money. Well that's simply wrong.
ReplyDeleteI'm anonymous because I don't have a login. It's not hiding behind anything. I don't have a blog so I don't have a name.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't say anything here that I wouldn't say to her in person if she really acts like this towards others.
Your use of the word "attack" is kinda funny too. Pointing out her inappropriate behavior is just that and is not an attack. Feel free to be offended though.
Pointing out her behavior would be factual, free of insulting terminology. "Attack" is appropriate: "To criticize strongly or in a hostile manner."
ReplyDeleteWould you really walk up to someone you barely know and call them a "bitch?" I've run into some pretty irate people at the hospital, but it's rare that I hear those type of comments face to face. Not saying it doesn't happen, but truth is that people are freer with negativity when they are communicating through a computer.
Also, you can have a username without a blog. It still won't personally identify you -- none of us are personally identified. However, it does give a consistent "identity."
Anon, I really have no dispute with you. You can take or leave my comments. Just some thoughts...
"I don't have a blog so I don't have a name."
ReplyDeleteFalse i dont have a blog an I have a Name and a Last name, and a Photo. nobody will go to venezuela anyways.
I wonder where Happy has been? He normally updates his blog several times a day. And now, nothing since Friday.
ReplyDeletei have a name and no blog...not that anyone cares....
ReplyDeleteyes, it is weird that Dr. H hasn't updated...
maybe he is over at "Everything Health" saying that lifestyle changes cure everything...
Dr. Frank 1 <3 you!
o-kay, i'm offically worried...can't believe i'm worried about Dr. H.....
ReplyDelete