I have heard that patients frequently sexually harass nurses and nurses are frequently the victims of inappropriate actions of completely competent male patients saying inappropriate sexual innuendo towards female nurses. Things like
"You can come lay next to me when you're done with your meds." or
"When you're done with your paperwork, why don't you come give me a bath"
I have also heard of physicians using their perceived sense of power to make inappropriate sexual advances toward other work place professionals who may feel a sense of powerlessness as "subordinates". Both types of actions disgust me. For the physicians engaging in such activity, you represent your profession poorly. I'm not here to judge your worthiness as a human but I can say that I have no desire to work with you as colleagues. How you act toward others is a direct reflection on how you act toward me and my patients and I want no part of it, unless I have no choice in the matter. At which point I will put up with it out of necessity.
As for patients, I want to know how you as a nurse respond to inappropriate sexual advances from patients. What is the appropriate course of action?
Well, we are supposed to immediately but carefully inform the patient that his behavior is inappropriate and unacceptable. Do a little discussion of what the definition of "our" relationship is. I personally have not had anything wild happen yet. Just your run-of-the-mill tachycardia/pnea. This phenomena is still too hilarious to my male classmates, but not so funny to cardiologists. If something should happen it gets reported. We document like crazy people.
ReplyDelete-Second career nursing student
Disclaimer: I'm normally a mild-mannered, goody-two-shoes, non-rule-bending person.
ReplyDeleteSo I was working on a peds hem/onc floor, but got a random off-service admission one night: 17 y/o male, mildly intoxicated, broken arm after driving a stolen car into a dumpster. He kept uncovering himself and moving his gown up, making all sorts of inappropriate comments/gestures. I was firm and polite, did all the protocol stuff, etc. etc. etc. Finally, I just copped a huge, hand-on-the-hip, head-bobbing attitude and said, "Look, buddy, I'm a nurse, which means I have seen PLENTY of those, and let me just tell you that yours? It's not impressive. Now cover it up so I don't get confused and think I walked in the 8-year old's room." After that, I didn't see his penis again for the rest of the night.
Anyway, to actually answer your question...most of the problems I've had were with family members. I usually ignore it the first time, in case I'm being hypersensitive, then will give them one warning and remind them that it's inappropriate. Next, I'd talk to my charge nurse, and I guess we'd call security to escort them out if it continued. Personally, I've never had it get to that point.
I had a doc hit on me once and ask if I wanted to "go away for a weekend sometime" (in front of my patient). I told him I didn't think my husband would be too fond of the idea and left him standing at the bedside.
ReplyDeleteAs far as patients go, I usually say "Your behavior (or comment) is both inappropriate and unacceptable and it won't be tolerated.
I had a Dr...a former employer actually, ask me out while his wife was in the hospital for surgery. Yea. Needless to say, I did not take him up on the offer.
ReplyDeleteAs far as patients go, I don't encourage the behaviour and tell them their suggestion is out of the question and they may want to rethink what they just asked.
Fourth year med student, and I've been hit on by patients and their families more times than I can count. I've actually stopped wearing makeup and fixing my hair as that seems to help a bit. Been hit on by a husband whose wife was on L&D (I just told him he was a scumbag and walked off), a father on peds while his wife was at work, and a bunch of male family members in the ER. I usually ignore it and then avoid the room as much as possible. Have traded patients with a classmate because one of my patients was hitting on me.
ReplyDeleteAh narcissism already. I suspect by the end of your internship you will be pathologic.
ReplyDeleteAll of my work is with adults...I might approach things differently with teenagers....
ReplyDeleteThat being said, usually I'm able to laugh and ask the patient if that really works for them. Shame works. If the patient is *wildly* inappropriate, shame can have a slight flavor of ridicule.
For AMS patients who repeatedly expose themselves, I cover them back up and say, "I do NOT wanna keep lookin at your junk! I've seen it already!"
This backfires, as they forget. I treat it with a post-work adult beverage.
For little old men who want me to hold their penises into the urinal, I hand them the urinal and walk out of the room. On occasions when I've had protests, I point out that if they can hold a fork to eat (which has always been true), they can hold their penis to pee. I say this clearly, slowly, and at volume. Shame usually works.
If not, I mention that if they miss and need me to clean urine off their skin, that the tap water doesn't ever get hot. Even if it does.
Patients who masturbate (with or without foley catheter) get a box of Kleenexes, a closed door and the call light is ignored for a half hour.
The worst I've had, though, was the mother of a young quad. I was undressing and transferring him for his shower, and his mother creepily would not leave the room. She asked me to sit in her naked son's lap so she could take a picture.
I said loudly: "What is WRONG WITH YOU?!?", walked out of the room and switched assignments with one of the guys I worked with. Charge RN was told, and from then on, that patient was always assigned male RNs and CNAs.
....
When someone is appallingly inappropriate and their mental faculties are intact, I do not bother giving them a rational lesson in manners or the nature of a professional relationship. It's a waste of my time to 'teach' an adult how to behave. It doesn't get to me, though. Every doc and RN knows abundantly that the world has too many idiots, and the fact that we ever managed to crawl out of the sludge is just dumb luck.
/justcallmejo
I was hit on by my attending when I was a 4th year med student on a required sub-internship.
ReplyDeleteIt's everywhere - and not just in medicine, in most every business.
OK. As a male nurse it all depends on the stage and to what context. I've done both, shrugged it off, and called them on it right in front of them at that moment. Heck, I've also called them on it in front of their family and/or physician.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, it's inappropriate, unwarranted and of course unwanted. Everyone involved needs to be on the same page fighting the same fight and I think that's where the breakdown happens. When one nurse/doc ignores the same harrassment that another stands up against.
The mixed signals is what gives the person doing the harrassing permission.
Just my 2 cents.
"So, Happy, you married a nurse but you never worked with her? I'm guessing you don't consider asking a nurse out on a date to be sexually harassing..."
ReplyDeleteI would also like to see your response to this, Dr. Happy...
As a patient it is just as gross to hear staff members being sleezy.
ReplyDeleteWhile lying on an xray table, I heard someone enter the room behind me. A male Radiologist had walked in and was sleezing up the radiographer. You could tell by her tone she wasn't impressed by his sleaze, I nearly mouth vomited listening, and turned to see the culprit almost doing a grinding dance behind her....
Gross, my ex was like that...shudder.
I have been Sexually Harassed by female patients, even male patiens and nurses, people just dont understand that doctors doesnt work on hospitals for sex.
ReplyDeleteIf im sexually harassed forget to recieve any medical attention from me.
one of the most remarkable cases was that mother with the Whooping Cough child, she sexually harrased me, even his husband was gonna pick a fight with me.
she wanted to thank me with sex for treating her boy with Whooping Cough, i guess it would be different if his son would have been treated apropiately by other docs.
As a med student I witnessed a patient hit on a nurse anesthesitist DURING his surgery. The really funny thing was the nurse anesthesitist (where is spell check when you need it) was married to the surgeon performing the surgery! The surgeon then informed the patient that the patient was hitting on his wife (which was not too bright since the surgeon was holding a scalpel) and the sexual harrasment ended.
ReplyDeleteIn a mental health clinical rotation, I had a female TBI patient who blurted out some things she was thinking about me. I laughed it off, but I think this was the wrong response. I'm not sure how to deal with a patient whose inappropriateness is a result of medical condition.
ReplyDeleteIn general, I agree with HH. Asking out or "hitting on" a single co-worker is not problematic until it occurs repeatedly. In fact, I would say that in our day and age, asking out a married co-worker is not really inappropriate, either. People have the darndest arrangements these days. On the other hand, I would probably try to assess said arrangements before asking.
Finally, I just copped a huge, hand-on-the-hip, head-bobbing attitude and said, "Look, buddy, I'm a nurse, which means I have seen PLENTY of those, and let me just tell you that yours? It's not impressive. Now cover it up so I don't get confused and think I walked in the 8-year old's room."I suppose you think that's funny, but it's completely inappropriate and unprofessional. I would definitely write up another nurse who I heard say that. Whatever mild annoyance he may have caused you was not worth it. The fact he stopped then but not before indicates you made him feel shame over his body rather than his actions toward you. You therefore taught him no lesson. You simply achieved your own desires at his expense. Not cool, especially for a pediatric nurse.
As a patient it is just as gross to hear staff members being sleezy.Yes, this is a real problem. I, myself, am guilty of engaging in sexual repartee with co-workers within earshot of patients. I try not to, but often fail from absentmindedness, and other co-workers don't even bother trying not to. I think it's a result of boredom usually. Some patients and family definitely take note. One time, a nurse was telling a joke at the nurses station that involved making masturbatory motions, and I looked over to see four or five family members standing in a room watching through the doorway. Oh well, deed done. I always wonder what they thought he was talking about, though.
No, no, no... never said I was proud of it or that it was appropriate. I meant it as an illustration of how sometimes you can just lose your cool, even though we're supposed to be professional and rise above situations like that. (Thus the 'disclaimer' at the beginning.) Yes, I got what I wanted, but note that I didn't say I would go that route again... wasn't my intention to imply that.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't only happen to nurses.
ReplyDeleteWhen it happens to me I try to move on...but am more than usually careful not to be alone in a room/cubicle with the patient (if it was a patient). When it is a patients NOK (including husband) in front of them....yerk.
Didn't Y'all ever watch M*A*S*H?? and I mean the original movie, not that pinko-lib propaganda with that sissy Alan Alda... Thats what kept me studyin through the MCATs... visions of a harem of scantily clad scrub nurses showin body... I married one too, or more accurately, stumbled into her web...she was a freak back then...
ReplyDeleteFrank, M.D.
Yup, you did it again, I'm laughing, but frightened as well...
ReplyDelete-Second career nursing student
Chris..grow up and grow a pair. * Gotta stop some horny low-lifes in their tracks by whatever means needed....however "offensive" that may be to your politically correct ears.
ReplyDeletePattie, RN
*applies regardless of whether you are a girl-type Chris or boy-type Chris, by the way.
Yeah, Pattie, I agree with you. A 17-year-old punk acts like because he can. He gets away with that, he'll try something more outrageous next time. Oh, but we can't correct the little pervert, we might hurt his feelings.
ReplyDeleteOh, but we can't correct the little pervert, we might hurt his feelings.You've got it completely backwards. Making fun of a pediatric patient's penis isn't correcting him. That was my point.
ReplyDelete*sigh*
ReplyDeleteChris---what planet do you live on? Betcha have an ACLU card burning a hole in your wallet, to....
A horny drunk 17 year old is not a "pediatric patient". He is an overtly hyper-sexual altered adult male. The kind that can rape and impregnate. NOT a child in his or any world.
Making fun of his inappropriatly flaunted genitals IS correcting--and shaming him-APPROPRIATLY!!
You don't have kids, do you??? AND--you think the current President is the Universe's gift to humanity???
Please take your "p.c." crap over to Huffington Post where someone might care. The rest of us practice in the real world, where there are standards and consequences. Oh--did we hurt your feelings?? Tough shit.
Pattie, RN
Tough Battle-Ax
and Poud of IT!!
Oh geez Patty! I'm losing respect for you even with all your advanced accomplishments. Can I get you a glass of wine or something? seriously.
ReplyDelete-Second career nursing student
No thanks, I don't drink...although deluded nursing students like Chris may make me reconsider.I didn't mention that my first career was the Army, so I have a low tolerance for BS and adolescens who know everything, regardless of their chronilogical age! What was your first career path, if I may ask??
ReplyDeletePattie, RN (with an "IE") :-)
Pattie, Oh, Ok the Army. My relatives are Airforce.
ReplyDeleteI'd say that I don't reveal too much info about myself on the net. Lots of you guys run around butt naked on the internet! LOL! All I can say is that my previous career dealt with lots of $ liability directly dependent on my actions only. (with no benefit of malpractice insurance of course).
-Second career nursing student
Pattie, you're a real laugh (or was that joke?). You do deserve a spanking, though, for calling me PC.
ReplyDelete