threatened several faculty membersIt takes a lot of effort to become a former medical student. Education is expensive. And state supported schools have every interest in making sure you graduate. So once you are in, you have to be either a criminal or an idiot to get kicked out.
I have no idea which it was with this former student. I do remember, as a medical student, that the faculty did everything within their power to help you graduate once you were accepted. It is in the state's best interest to graduate a student that they have invested so strongly in.
On the flip side, I remember one student in particular, who just happened to be a member of a minority, that failed their testing miserably. Held back for at least two years, established protocols indicated students who were unable to pass required testing should be kicked out of medical school.
I remember this student in particular threatened to sue the university for discrimination. Of course, the university caved, the student eventually graduated and was accepted into a residency far far away. I remember thinking to myself, I fear for those patients that resident comes in contact with. The process isn't perfect, but it does a great job of weeding out those that are incapable of succeeding down the academic tract of becoming a physician.
And occasionally a bunch of lawyers mess that all up against the safety of the general public. Give me a break. If you are an idiot, you shouldn't be babied through medical school for fear of being sued. This student played the system perfectly. They played the "race card" and won. Now, I just hope I never come in contact with them as a patient.
Pretty sure that happens at every medical school. Different rules for different folks. It's a shame.
ReplyDeletei dont think they are idiots i think they just dont try hard enough, there are people that just dont study, they are laaaaaazyyyyy, you need to work hard in order to learn, there arent shortcuts in medical school but some people still think there are, cause it takes a lot of effort, a lot of study to be godly. I dont blame them but i suggest those people skip medical school and try another thing, health care is a serious business its not meant to be fooling around.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who works hard enough to get into med school and is asked to leave that medical school is stupid. Just plain stupid.
ReplyDeleteIt shows a lack of the ability to ask for help - every medical school faculty has some people on it that can help students with difficulties. Med schools faculties are not perfect, but they have some people there who try.
The weak link in thie case may be that they made a mistake in letting this person in. It could have been that they scored well enough on the MCAT, but had high grades from a poor undergraduate program, and glowing references from instructors who worked with a bad pool of students, i.e. this person was the 'big fish in the small pond.' Some people interview well. There could also be corruption. I knew of a student who was admitted to med school in one of the more obscure western states thanks to alot of help from his Dad (head of a major dept at said med school) and his cronies.
ReplyDeleteBeing smart and knowing enough science to get in is not enough. Discipline and good life skills count for more in the long haul.
Marco
Or they could have been admitted under Affirmative Action and didn't belong there in the first place. That was true of a number of my med school classmates who ended up failing multiple times. You learn all kinds of things when med students end up on Admissions committees.
ReplyDeleteThat's a frightening thing. When I started my nursing program there were 30 students. When I graduated there were only nine of us left. The instructors weeded with a fine tooth comb, as well they should have.
ReplyDeleteyou're right, it would be much better if all doctors were rich kids from the suburbs, right? because clearly affirmative action is flawed since you knew this guy, see, who like, was totally not smart and was a minority.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that when a white kid does poorly in college/medical school it's no big deal; but when a minority does poorly... *GASP* that must mean that affirmative action is fundamentally flawed.
But don't worry, that's not racist.
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ReplyDeleteAnon 8:38
ReplyDeleteWay to break out the "racist" card. It's people like you that make it impossible to discuss race issues in a civil manner.
And FWIW, the white students who do that poorly are kicked out of school without getting second and third chances.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is hard to ignore. That IS racism, but it's going the other way.
"Way to break out the "racist" card."
ReplyDeleteactually that card was originally played by our esteemed blogger when he (somewhat sarcastically) noted the race of the medical student who failed:
"I remember one student in particular, who just happened to be a member of a minority, that failed their testing miserably."
And by the way, we don't know how that single student turned out. What if he ends up being an excellent doctor once he got out of the classroom and onto the floor? What if he develops a new cancer treatment and saves lives?
This is the problem with using analogies to make sweeping policy generalizations; they prove nothing except your own personal biases.
First:
ReplyDelete"Not in a million years would the university have caved to a lawsuit by a student in the majority, for following already established rules for kicking someone out."
OK, since you brought it up again, you should know that you contradicted yourself since you spent a portion of your OP explaining how medical schools bend over backwards not to kick their students out. But then you turn right around and say that they 100% WOULD have kicked that student out if they were white or a non-underrep'd minority (Asian). So which is it?
Secondly:
"My point was that the STUDENT pulled the race card and played the university like charm. And the general public will suffer for those actions."
MY point is that those two statements are both YOUR OPINION; and again, the only definitive evidence that we can draw from your anecdote is that you don't like affirmative action. I could just as easily tell you a story about how rich kids from the suburbs attend better schools and are coached to ace standardized tests while poor kids from the cities do not receive those same benefits but have the potential to be just as intelligent and capable of learning medicine if given the chance. And the only thing that MY anecdote would prove is that I support affirmative action.
"With out standards, your life will be in danger with badly produced doctors."
Why would anybody argue against standards? I'm certainly not. Affirmative action is, in itself, a standard; it requires institutions to level the playing field and diversify secondary education. Without THAT standard, colleges, medical schools, and the medical profession would have even fewer under-represented minorities than they already do.
I'm not really sure how I am riding a high horse either; you're the one getting all indignant and ominous about the standards of medical practice-- as if that kid is going to somehow get out of passing his boards, residency and licensure requirements, etc. before he can start legally practicing.
Sorry to rain on your parade; I know it's just fast and easier for people to just nod along with your original post without thinking it through.
"Affirmative action is, in itself, a standard; it requires institutions to level the playing field and diversify secondary education. Without THAT standard, colleges, medical schools, and the medical profession would have even fewer under-represented minorities than they already do."
ReplyDeleteAnd? You get accepted if you qualify based on objective standards. NOT because you're pretty good and happen to be a minority. Applications shouldn't have race on them, and it shouldn't come into play.
AA is the antithesis of fairness and is simply reverse discrimination all wrapped up in pretty bows that make people feel good about it. Don't believe it? Ask yourself this. Is an alternative standard being applied to two different groups SOLELY because of race? Hmmmm, sounds like the definition of racism to me.
I've seen students be allowed to pass or be gimped along in order to avoid threats of lawsuits. I've seen these students move on year to year who fail tests, but somehow continue to be moved along in the system. I've seen these students get "scholarships" to boot. It annoys the hell out of people who have to cover for their stupidity, take care of their over narc'd patients on the floors, and watch out for asses who don't know shit about medicine sending their patients to the ER because they're too incompetent. Race has nothing to do with it - failure should be moved along and out the door.
ReplyDelete"for the anon flame thrower"
ReplyDelete"Flame thrower"? Are you kidding? All I did was give an opinion that was in disagreement with our anon blogger. It's not like I called anybody names.