Thursday, May 22, 2008

Where The Hell Do I Start?

When you show up on the hospital door steps from an outside ER at 1am with the following problem list

  • hypotension causes unknown
  • altered mental status
  • reported "TIA" type symptoms
  • hypoxemia on 4 liters of oxygen
  • recent pacemaker placement for asystolic pause/Sick Sinus syndrome
  • afib on anticoagulation
  • dilated loops of colon of uncertain etiology
  • abdominal pain
  • RN reported lower GI bleed with "clots"
  • end stage renal disease on hemodialysis
  • right basilar infiltrate on chest xray
  • recent "enterococcus" sepsis
  • cardiomegally
  • large ventral wall abdominal hernia
  • anemia
You had better hope there is a hospitalist doctor there to greet you. I think to myself
  1. Without a hospitalist, who would accept this patient on transfer?
  2. Without an in house hospitalist, would this patient really get a bed side evaluation for every one of their medical issues, in real time, that night?
  3. With all the hype about extenders, how would a NP or PA handle this type of admission?
As I learned in medical school and residency, caring for these types of patients requires a fundamental ability to break down each and every problem into its own little box. To be looked at and dissected independently of all the noise surrounding it. Once you understand the state of each condition alone, only then are you allowed to open that box and share its contents with the other 20 boxes stacked up all around it. Each box boldly claiming that they are the most important issue at hand.
I was not comfortable with this concept until well into the third year of my internal medicine residency. Most PA's and NP's can handle one box. As witnessed by the onslaught of extenders flocking to specialist care. All of our procedural oriented specialists in my community have extenders that write the daily notes for all my patients. You know, the lower paying (relative to procedural pay) E & M cognitive codes. A few words jotted here and there by the doc completes the E&M process in nary a minute.
But I shudder to think of how an extender would respond to this type of complex multiorgan failure scenario when plopped on their lap at 1 am. And this is the norm of hospitalist medicine, not the exception. I remember my internal medicine rotation as a 3rd year medical student. I remember being overwhelmed beyond all imaginable means. "Where the hell do I start?" was the only constant in that 12 week experiment that taught me how little I really knew.
Sometimes, that thought still crosses my mind. But the disorganized fear of my med school days is gone. Replaced with a confident, capable expert in my skill set. I'll be the first to admit, however, that doesn't include femur fractures.


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7 Outbursts:

  1. Wowsers. I can't believe those comments by the orthopods. Have you EVER seen one NOT consult medicine when a patient is over 40 or has ANY medical problem (even well managed HTN)!?!? I am always having to admit elderly hip fx to the medical service since othro can't deal with the medical problems (even apparently if they get a medicine consult). I had one guy say "the patient is 75, by DEFINITION they need to go on medicine". Good Friggin' Grief!

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  2. I never thought I would agree with the Happster here, but I have real doubts about NPs and PAs, too. Too many times, we are shunted to them--even in the doc's office. We are supposed to feel it's all OK when they say they "called" the doctor about us. As for docs staying in their comfort "silo," I had a cardio once turf me off, saying I had a "medical" problem.

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  3. I'd start with blood cultures. I'll lay $50 that the pacer's infected.

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  4. Let us not confuse the PA with the NP. Different training, different roles, different capabilities,different everything. That off my chest, it is amazing to me what kind of chronic conditions people walk around with. I have a regular patient who is PPN dependent, trached, and has a pacer. Also apparently grows really nice orchids. Some times I wonder where all these complex chronics were when I was still in school, and then I remember: they died. Oh, and was the pacer infected?

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  5. woolywoman, with that said, how many NP programs do you know where they work 80 hours a week, 50 weeks a year for 3 years? Granted the training tracks are completely different between NP and PA. But my point is that neither is capable in their training of making decision making of this magnitude.

    Then throw on the training regiment of 4 years of medical school compared with 4 years of nursing school. There is simply no substitute. They cannot be interchanged.

    My point being, neither NP nor PA has the breadth of knowledge, training, experience or understanding to make the leap from extender to sole practioner in these types of patients. To believe otherwise would be like me stating my ability to manage open orthopaedic fractures. Which I know I can't.

    It's not meant to be offensive. Only reality. Because I know how long it took me to really understand internal medicine, I know that it cannot be accomplished by an RN with extended NP training. I would even go so far as state it is impossible.

    I don't claim to be a nurse with nursing skills because I didn't go to nursing school. Being a nurse who went to NP school is not the same as going to medical school and residency training. To believe so would scare me as a patient.

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  6. And I didn't mean to denigrate nurses. Nurses are your lifeline in these hospitals. Sometimes--here I go again--the hospitalists won't even lay eyes on you unless you insist they come in your room.

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  7. I am a midlevel that worked very rural where docs arent there to cover ER and I dont know a doc who wouldnt accept a transfer and that pt. We transferred to big hospital all the time due to complexity, I dont think the family docs in my town would admit rurally either. We do have enough training to know when we are over our head and need to send to you. So I would think you would be happy to take my complicated pts give him the best care and send him back to nowhere usa.

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