Sunday, March 16, 2008

My Hypothyroidism

For the lay folks out there,  here is an overview of hypothyroidism

Interesting,  of all the common symptoms,  the only one I have ever clearly had was dry skin.

But I've had that for many years.

During a recent fertility work up, my sperm count was found to be quite low.   Normal volume, pH slightly alkaline, morphology 20% normal, normal motility.  


As a result, we visited an IVF doctor to check into IVF options.  Routine screening labs were order.  I asked her to put on a TSH as I had never had one checked.
Low and behold.  TSH was 25.  I was not actually all that surprised.  I have an identical twin brother who was diagnosed 2 years ago with hypothyroidism.  I am not familiar with the role genetics play in hypothyroidism,  but I find it interesting that both of us have it.  


If there are any thyroid genetic researchers out there, I'm sure my brother and I would be willing to donate a little DNA in  the name of science.

Symptom wise,  I really didn't have much, except for the dry skin.   However, I did find it odd that after 60 minutes on a tread mill, I was not able to get my heart rate past 85% of maximum.

The IVF doc had her nurse tell me the results, and to get myself a doc to manage it.  

Once again, the value of primary care rearing its head.

The dose she wanted me to start on was simply inadequate.

I called her back, left a message on the voice mail that I needed a larger dose, and here is my recommendation.

With that,  I went to pick up the medicine later in the day at a Walgreen's pharmacy.

The dosing had not been adjusted,  so I told the pharmacy to abort the script.

I asked them how much the medicine was.  

$12.99 for a 50 mcg tablet daily, for a one month supply.

Well,  I see a lot of folks as a hospitalist without insurance  that need to be discharged with cheap meds.  So I know that generic thyroid pills run $4 at Walmart.

I drove myself to Walmart.  Went up to the window and ordered myself some levothyroxine

 125mcg qday.  #30, 11 refills.

10 minutes later,  $4 cash and I was on my way.

Interestingly, since the inception of the $4 Walmart program,  there are now 4 other local pharmacy/department/grocery store chains that have gone the same way, to keep market share.

The fact that I, a physician went to Walmart instead of Walgreen's is proof positive that competition drives down prices, to the benefit of everyone.

The husband of a hospital worker takes thyroid medication as well.  But apparently, he believes that the much more expensive brand name is better than the cheap generic.  

My how our public has been brainwashed.

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23 Outbursts:

  1. What's your age, doc? Could it be "she" started you at 50 mcg because she wanted to titrate your dose after a repeat TSH? Of course as hospitalist, you have access to heart monitoring more than an ordinary outpatient.
    It's intriguing too, to know the FDA regs as to substitution of thyroid and other "narrow txtic" dose meds...
    Indeed, $4 generics are a boon! Wish BMY wasn't able to scuttle generic plavix the way they did.

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  2. anon: nah, my age didn't have anything to do with it. It is simply a starting number.

    In my book, you titrate a number once you start at an appropriate dose. You don't start with a low dose with the expectation of needing to raise it.

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  3. why is s/he prescribing it at all?

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  4. why are you bothering to see someone else if you're going to do the prescribing yourself?

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  5. Wow, you are brave to not only prescribe meds for yourself but to also start at that high of a dose. I'm not quite sure I've ever seen 125 mcg daily recommended as a starting dose before. I've always seen "start with 50 mcg daily and titrate based on response....unless elderly, then start lower."
    Good luck with that. I hope you get a TSH, T4, EKG, or something to follow up on that dosing.

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  6. Dude, weren't you taught "start low, go slow"? Granted if you're not elderly, there probably won't be much of a strain on your heart; still, there's a good reason to start thyroxine at a lower dose than you think you're going to end up on.

    Your TSH should be checked at 6-8 week intervals as long as you're titrating UPWARD. The problem is that if you overshoot and suppress your TSH, it can take 6 MONTHS for it to come back up. If you keep trying to titrate it q 6-8 weeks, you'll end up undershooting again and overall, it will take much longer to get to your correct final dose.

    Start at 75 mcg if you want, but don't go straight to what you think your full replacement dose is (even if it's the same as your brother's.)

    Just a practice pearl from an Outpatientist.

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  7. anon 654, that was a fertility specialist, not anyone who routinely prescribes thyroid medication. But as others have said, the norm is to start at 50 mcg and titrate up.

    I suppose that's ok if I'm 70 with native coronary artery disease. But I don't see the necesssity to do so in healthy non cardiac patients.

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  8. hospital pharmacist. There is not a single reason in the world I would need an EKG or a FT4 level.

    How would an EKG affect managment?

    How would a FT4 affect managment?

    The dosing is adjusted based on TSH.

    My plan is to get a TSH in 4 weeks. And 4 weeks after that.

    I know that Osler once said only a doctor treats himself as a patient.

    But come on. It's a medication that involves the following logic.

    TSH high=increase dose

    TSH low= decrease dose.

    I'm pretty sure I could pass that logic test.

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  9. dinasaur

    I actually did start at a lower dose than suggested. Based on my weight, my recommended final dosing is closer to 144 mcg.

    See my new blog entry regarding my dosing.

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  10. Happy, I'm a pharmacist with WAG. (I have no problem with you going to Wallyworld, by the way ,if it was cheaper for you). We dispense A LOT of brand name Synthroid and Levoxyl because endocrinologists in our area refuse to allow generic substitution. I know there was some disparity in the past about generic equivalence, but many are now AB rated to Synthroid or Levoxyl. So, sometimes, it's not always the pts choice.
    Regarding the $4 program, in theory it's probably good for the uninsured pt, but BAD BUSINESS for pharmacy. I read your blog regularly (and thoroughly enjoy it) and I hear you talking about declining physician reimburesement. Well, it's the same situation in pharmacy. Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBMs) really try to put the squeeze on you and try to negotiate lower and lower reimbursement rates each year. Where I work, we're about 95% third party, so we don't do much "cash" business. If Walmart dispenses a medication for $4, guess who's reimbursement rate is going to go down eventually? Everybody! It actually costs about $6-7 per rx to fill (excluding ingredient cost) in most cases. WalMart claims they're not "losing" money on the medications. (Probably not based on ingredient cost, but they're not making a lot and their pharmacists aren't getting any more additional help since this program went into effect----well, at least from the ones I talked with).

    On another note, your MORE=FREE tag couldn't be more dead on in retail pharmacy as well. We see it all day, everyday in the pharmacy as well. (BRAND Norco, Soma, and Valium for worker's comp injuries). (BRAND everything on several of Medicaid pts. In Texas, the MD has to write "Brand Medically Necessary" and usually caves in to their requests)

    Anyway, keep up the great blogging.

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  11. anon, the issue with the $4 program is that it is market economies at work.

    There is no third party setting the rates.

    In a market economy, competition drives the price downward.

    In this case, the point is moot whether or not Walmart is losing money on their $4 scripts.

    They set the price and in a free market, they can set the price to what ever they want.

    That's the difference between losing money from a 3rd party, and setting your own money losing fees.

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  12. Tongue-in-cheek, my friend, tongue-in-cheek.

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  13. You may want those tests done in the case of, say, thyroid storm.

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  14. Any Iodine in Mona Vie?

    That's what I would have asked you if you'd come to a Family Doc....

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  15. ddx: i looked it up. The acai berry itself has some iodine in it, as it has a ton of nutrients/minerals in it. I don't know much iodine per say.

    But then again, I have no idea how much iodine is in my salt shaker.

    I ripped off this chart from the internet:

    FOOD IODINE CONTENT
    (micrograms per 100 grams of food)

    Salt (iodized)
    Seafood
    Vegetables
    Meat
    Eggs
    Dairy products
    Bread and cereals
    Fruits

    3000
    66
    32
    26
    26
    13
    10
    4


    RJS

    Would you rather spend $1,500 for a flat screen or $1000, if they were both the same quality and same service?

    The question arises do you value the business enough to sacrifice your hard earned dollars. And only that is a personal decision.

    Many won't.

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  16. Not sure about the laws in the US, but in Canada, it is not acceptable for a physician to prescribe for their family or themselves unless it is an urgent situation, So, if you came to my pharmacy with your self-written rx, you may not have gotten it.

    Now,t he $4 better-for-everyone comment you made. it is NOT better for everyone. Walmart is using that as the loss-leader and subsidizing those rxs with sales from other departments.

    Walmart will try to drive all the independant pharmacies out of business and then crank up the cost again. I have seeen similar situations happen in my lifetime.

    I would suggest that the constant complaint about reimbursement for doctors being cut is comparable. Please do not make assumptions about a business you clearly know nothing about.

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  17. In my state, I can prescribe non controlled (narcs/benzo's etc) for myself, but I can't prescribe anything for anybody in my immediate household.

    I would buy your arguement regarding loss leader killing off the competition if it were not for the fact that in my city there are 4 other pharmacy chains which have also gone to the $4 list.

    I believe that would imply competition for market share, as opposed to destroying the competition as you suggest. I suppose everyone is using it as their lose leader than, which means all these pharmacies are in the same boat.

    The fact that Walmart offers a lot of stuff cheaper than ma and pa stores does not mean that Walmart should be banned for selling cheaper everything.

    Ma and Pa need to adjust, or self stuff Walmart doesn't.

    It's the same as Target, Shopko or any other department store opening up.

    Third party payment is an entirely different story.

    It is not a market at work.

    I have no idea what a physician would get paid in the open market because third party system does not allow the market to function openly.

    Supply and demand has left the building.

    Would it be higher or lower. Only the market could decide that.

    By the way, I never claimed to own a pharmacy, my observations are based on my experience.

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  18. you think he will go into thyroid storm from a dose of 125 mcg, and that's why he'll need an EKG and fT4?

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  19. anon: was an attempt at being sarcastic about the 125 mcg starting dose. I have seen patients develop arrythmias after a 50 mcg per day increase, so I think 125 mcg daily may be a little on the aggressive side...but that issue has been debated to great length by #1 dinosaur and The Happy Hospitalist. I guess my sarcasm went over some heads.

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  20. HH: Do you think it is possible that your fantastic response to Mona Vie might be that you are now euthyroid? Only you would know if there is any temporal connection to feeling better and being on thyroid replacement. In any case, glad you are feeling well.

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  21. Toni: I've been on thyroid replacement for less than 3 weeks. I've been taking Mona Vie for almost 4 months. I felt great long before I even found out I was hypothyroid and started taking replacement.

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  22. I'm going to need to go catch up on your blog because I just found it and we seem to have a lot in common...maybe. I had thyroid cancer almost 3 years ago (not the in common part) and recently started drinking the Mona Vie juice because a friend raved about it.

    I do have to say that while the generic to synthroid is cheaper, in the case of cancer I need to take actual name brand. Before you jump all over me and say that isn't true, let me tell you the reason. The generic brand may change, and the amount may slightly differ each time the generic is changed. In hypothyroidism, it doesn't matter because the slight difference is so slight it wouldn't lead to anything and wouldn't be noticed. It probably doesn't matter for me, but my doctor feels strongly that it needs to be exactly the same each time. I am taking one dose 5 days a week and a different dose 2 days a week because my levels need to be consistent and exact, so I know my story is different than yours and different from most people...just putting it out there that if you buy something other than generic it doesn't necessarily mean you like to waste money or are brainwashed into believing it is better. If I could gaurantee that the generic brand would stay the same I would love to be able to spend less each month...already I pay for two different doses each month.

    Good luck with this! I also have to say that before my radioactive iodine, my TSH was over 150 and I would never even have gone to a doctor for how I felt so I have no idea how people get diagnosed as hypo unless by accident!

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